Considering getting a thermal scope for my occasional night hunt outings

[Kingfish]

I don't hunt very often at night for hogs or coyotes. Right now I usually only go during the second quarter of the moon so I have good moonlight for my traditional scopes and binos. This is OK, but not ideal. A thermal would not only improve my seeing under those conditions, but allow me to go on nights with less moonlight to count on. I really don't want to invest lots of $$$ on something that won't get used that often. Right now Optics Planet has a good deal on their entry level ATM Thor @ about $700. An ATM QR mount would add another $100. For a couple hundred more I could get the Rattler V2 25-256 which already has a mount. If I'm going to spend 800, I might as well move up to the Rattler. The videos I have watched make it look like it's well worth the extra, but the Thor looks servicable. If there is something else out there or any of you have had good or bad experiences with either of these two scopes, I would appreciate the feedback.

Secondly, the only rifle available to me to put this scope on is a DD ISR in 300BO. It currently is the only rifle that has a QR mount (M4 red dot) so switching it out would be easy. All others have permanent mounted scopes. If you have used the 300BO on hogs, I would like to hear how pleased you are with it's performance. Shots will be within 200m.

​

 

[JEVapa]

I'm not a fan of the rattler...they're ok but they're kinda junky and still Chinese. If you have to go AGM rattler, get the 384 or better. There's a reason you see so many AGM and ATN entry thermals on the secondary market and it's not because they're awesome.

I highly recommend you look at the Shitmark Wraith Mini Thermal. It IS NOT the same as the Wraith Low Light sight. It's an actual Thermal. It's the best thermal in it's class on the market right now and it's extremely affordable and not Chinese. It's made in TX and uses a non Chinese bolometer. Way better than AGM or ATN anything IMO

$300 off at Cabela's. This is one of the few times I will say buy once cry once. The extra $900 ish is worth the investment. Ref to 300BLK for hogs? I think that's stupid. Some people love it but It's a waste IMO. 5.56 and 308 are much better (and cheaper), and a scope on an AR isn't really permanent. You can remove it and return it and if it has a good mount, it'll be within 1/2 moa at worse case.

https://www.cabelas.com/p/sightmark-wraith-mini-2-16x35-thermal-rifle-scope

Same price at Sightmark too

 

[Kingfish]

I hear what you're saying and appreciate the info. I don't think it's worth that much to me just to go out and shoot a hog once and a while. I can just keep on hunting under the moonlight.

 

[KurtM]

Not that it matters much in your case, because the cost would be out of what you want to spend, but weapons mounted systems get a bit tiring to use for hunting. You have to shoulder the rifle each time you want to scan for critters. Also while you are scanning you are pointing your loaded rifle at all sorts of real estate that may or may not be something you wish to point a rifle at. Thermal does have its place especially for longer ranged shots, but when it comes to pigs, you can walk right up to them if the wind is right, and then you really don't need thermal. If I already had a red dot that is night vision compatible I would get a head mount 2 or 3 Gen night vision device and merely look through it and the red dot and shoot. The other up side is now you can walk around and see where you are going, which is very difficult to do while shouldered with your weapons mounted thermal. You can drive a vehicle with the lights off. You can adjust the focus to be able to look at a map, or fish stuff out of your pack/cooler. It is easy to discern a pig at 200 yards, and fairly easy to get a head or neck shot at 100 yards if your not into walking. I've tried it all sorts of ways, and I far prefer a head mount NOD and a IR compatible red dot and have shot hundreds of pigs over the last 10 years with this type of setup.

 

[CS Boomis]

For shits and giggles take a look at the ThermNight optic. It’s definitely not top tier but would hit all your points. It has thermal, day color and and digital night with a laser range finder and a built in ballistic calculator in one bit of kit for a grand.

 

[OkieJoe]

I’ve used a green spotlight and stalked them that way. It’s cheap, and it can be a decent tool. I’m like you @Kingfish . I don’t hunt enough at night to justify a good night vision device. I do have a cheap digital night vision monocular with an IR light, and I can see out to around 60 to 80 yards with little to no moonlight.

 

[jakeman]

I do have a cheap digital night vision monocular with an IR light, and I can see out to around 60 to 80 yards with little to no moonlight.

Link?

Same, same. I really want a thermal, but I don't do enough night hunting to justify turning loose of 3 grand in order to own one. Maybe if I had a scope I would do more.

 

[JEVapa]

I hear what you're saying and appreciate the info. I don't think it's worth that much to me just to go out and shoot a hog once and a while. I can just keep on hunting under the moonlight.

Not saying that you should go the route I recommended, it’s just that, a recommendation. I hold fast on the 300BLK comment though, it’s not all that.

If you are going to get one of those you’re looking at, get the Rattler and make sure it’s the 25 and not the 19. The 25 is normally $1099 MSRP so it’s pretty cheap already and if you can get one with a discount, even better. Look at the secondary market too. People are always selling them to upgrade. I will say take the AGM over ATN; you couldn’t give me one of those.
Like I said, AGM are not bad, they’re just Chinese but most everything is.

 

[jakeman]

Not that it matters much in your case, because the cost would be out of what you want to spend, but weapons mounted systems get a bit tiring to use for hunting. You have to shoulder the rifle each time you want to scan for critters. Also while you are scanning you are pointing your loaded rifle at all sorts of real estate that may or may not be something you wish to point a rifle at. Thermal does have its place especially for longer ranged shots, but when it comes to pigs, you can walk right up to them if the wind is right, and then you really don't need thermal. If I already had a red dot that is night vision compatible I would get a head mount 2 or 3 Gen night vision device and merely look through it and the red dot and shoot. The other up side is now you can walk around and see where you are going, which is very difficult to do while shouldered with your weapons mounted thermal. You can drive a vehicle with the lights off. You can adjust the focus to be able to look at a map, or fish stuff out of your pack/cooler. It is easy to discern a pig at 200 yards, and fairly easy to get a head or neck shot at 100 yards if your not into walking. I've tried it all sorts of ways, and I far prefer a head mount NOD and a IR compatible red dot and have shot hundreds of pigs over the last 10 years with this type of setup.

For those of us illiterate in the things of which you speak, could you provide links for a head mounted device and a red dot that is night vision compatible?

I get worn out looking thru the weapon mounted thermal every time I go with someone, plus being night blind when looking away from the scope.

I think either what you're talking about or at least a hand held thermal monocular is a must if you're gonna be doing very much of this. Using a weapon mounted thermal to scan is a PITA, and not really all that safe.

 

[JEVapa]

He’s talking about a PVS-14 NVD and a NV compatible reflex like an Eotech EXPS3 or similar.

A lot of people will use helmets, especially bump helmets like the bottom pic because that’s more stable and comfortable than the skullcrusher that come with the 14.
You put your sight on NV mode and put the objective of the NVD behind it and you’ll see the reticle.

I prefer a thermal or a laser if using NVGs.
“ and not really all that safe” - Safe is relative…you’re shooting live rounds at night with an extremely limited FOV.
Thisis my safety. As long as your not doing 360s with your finger on the trigger and blasting, you’re probably pretty safe.

 

[KurtM]

Yes that's what I was talking about. I run twin PVS-14S in a bridge mount on a Crye Precision night cap, which is a mesh baseball cap type thing without the bill of the cap.
I actually agree about the "safety" aspect, but for the less dedicated, I leave this. I was walking in to one of the areas I hunt and became aware of someone else sitting on the pond dike. It was the land owners son in law, he wasn't supposed to be there, but he figured he could come out without letting anyone know, (medical device salesman) once I established who he was, he made a comment that made my blood boil! He said man you looked big through my scope (thermal he had just bought on an AR-10 on a tripod). I heard the brush crunching and scoped you out! Hmmm!!!!
And hence the comments I made, in order to see with your thermal you got to point your rifle at it, even just to see what is crunching through the brush.
Anyway here is the set up

 

[OkieJoe]

Link?

Same, same. I really want a thermal, but I don't do enough night hunting to justify turning loose of 3 grand in order to own one. Maybe if I had a scope I would do more.

Monocular:

CREATIVE XP Digital Night Vision Monocular for 100% Darkness​

IR Light attached to monocular

DARKBEAM ir Flashlight Infrared 940nm Light LED Rechargeable Mini for Night Vision​

 

[JEVapa]

I was walking in to one of the areas I hunt and became aware of someone else sitting on the pond dike. It was the land owners son in law, he wasn't supposed to be there, but he figured he could come out without letting anyone know, (medical device salesman) once I established who he was, he made a comment that made my blood boil! He said man you looked big through my scope (thermal he had just bought on an AR-10 on a tripod). I heard the brush crunching and scoped you out! Hmmm!!!!

This doesn’t really have anything to do with the safety factor of using a weapon mounted thermal. It does have everything to do with an unsafe individual that’s a prime candidate for an asswhipping.

 

[jakeman]

Monocular:

CREATIVE XP Digital Night Vision Monocular for 100% Darkness​

IR Light attached to monocular

DARKBEAM ir Flashlight Infrared 940nm Light LED Rechargeable Mini for Night Vision​

I don't know how well it works, but that's really affordable.

And you use this for hand held scanning?

 

[jakeman]

As long as your not doing 360s with your finger on the trigger and blasting, you’re probably pretty safe.

Well, I don't do that, and I'm always with the landowner and he's sitting right beside me in a 2 person elevated stand, so we aren't covering each other, and everything is on safe and solid trigger discipline, but we're still scanning with a weapon mounted optic and covering things we have no intention of shooting.

It doesn't give me enough of the willies that I'm losing sleep at night, but I'm not 100% comfortable with it either. I do know lots and lots of guys that only have weapon mounted thermal optics though. Lots and lots. So I know it happens a bunch.

 

[KurtM]

True dat Jevapa!
I don't really like lasers for hunting, especially in brushy areas. Turn one on and every blade of grash and branch suddenly becomes a light saber between you and your target. It is also very hard to lead a running target because of the above problem, where as an IR red dot you just shoot just like you would in the daylight. Now if you are driving them down with a side by, or in a truck, a laser is invaluable. I have shot many pigs with a laser that way, but for general walking around or sitting out in a lawn chair, a red dot is far more utile.

 

[OkieJoe]

I don't know how well it works, but that's really affordable.

And you use this for hand held scanning?

Well it’s not military grade or even mid-level grade, but it works decent. I can easily see out to at least 60 yards. It’s not great quality, but I use it to scan the area between my house and creek which is about 100 yards max. I’ve watched numerous deer with it, and I’ve used it for stalking hogs. If I were a more serious night hunter, I’d probably laugh at the setup, but it works for me. The added IR light drastically improved the overall experience.