What makes an accurate rifle?

[ClintC]

We all talk reloading and scopes on here for accuracy. Let’s start with the basics. A solid stock and good trigger group Is the basic foundation for an accurate rifle. Scopes help and reloading help. Reloading in my opinion should be barrel brass and bullet selection. The action and stock should be a snug fit. The trigger should be a clean brake you should not have to think about.

Let me hear your thoughts.

 

[adamsredlines]

Sure seems modern economy rifles are dang near on par with precision rifles from not that long ago. They may not be as fine, but they shoot very well.

And I know it's not really what you're asking, but trigger time is always as important if not more important than alot of the other stuff. Been watching the Erik Cortina videos of "Know your limit", "Ethical Hunter Challenge" and "Blackjack"....man there's alot of guys out there with some crazy amazing rigs who have no business with a rig like that. Most of those guys just plain make an ass of themselves with $5k+ rigs and claiming they shoot competition, then completely whiff the target or can't hold 3MOA @ 500. It's wild!

 

[KurtM]

One that groups well???

 

[JCann]

It all plays a roll in accuracy but it starts with a good barrel. Perfect bedding, trigger, ammo, shooter, and a bad barrel will not produce great accuracy. A barrel and shooter follow through is the last effect on a bullet from the weapon system, then you’re at the mercy of the quality of ammo and atmospheric conditions

 

[Kingfish]

I've been working on that project for a few years now. I never was into long range shooting because I had no access to a range. When I gained access to one, I started trying to get better at it. I started out with a DPMS 308 with a bull barrel and put a Nikon M-308 4-16 on it. Yes I realize that bolt guns are better for ultimate accuracy, but I wanted an accurate as possible AR based platform for a tactical rifle. I started making various upgrades to the rifle as finances would allow. I upgraded to a Vortex Viper 6-24x50 mounted on an Aero Precision base. Not a high end scope but a considerable step up from the Nikon. Next I wanted a better barrel that was threaded so I could use my suppressors on it, so I bought a Falkor Defense upper with an 18" Proof Research CF barrel and their BCG. Somewhere along the way I put a Timney single stage 4.5# trigger in it. It's not a target weight trigger, but I wanted to eliminate light strikes from lighter trigger in the event I needed to use lower grade ammo that might have hard primers. My latest upgrade was to replace the Vortex with a Steiner 6-30x56 on a NF base. Basically I have tried to remove as many variables from the equation as I can to put the blame on the guy pulling the trigger. I believe I have a solid setup now. The only thing left from the original gun is the lower. Will it shoot sub moa, probably not. I'm not sure I have the skills to do so even if you handed me the greatest target rifle ever made. I know reloading would help if I had the interest in working up a good load for it, but I don't. FGGM ammo will have to do. I wish I could have a skilled rifleman shoot it just to see what it's fully capable of. Like I said, it's meant to be a good tactical rifle not a competition piece.

 

[KurtM]

Not to be obtuse here, but what is a good barrel? Is it the name on it that makes it "good"? Although a name barrel has a higher likelihood of being "good", it certainly isn't a given. Over the years I've had several bad "good" barrels, if "good" is a name. Is it perfect bedding? I know of several rifles that almost anyone would consider accurate that are just screwed down into a wood stock, no bedding at all. I know of one in a cheap Bell and Carlson plastic stock with only the recoil lug bedded. A good trigger? My good and yours would more than likely be very different, but as long as I do my part weight isn't necessarily good or bad. Now I will admit a good trigger helps, but it won't help a bad barrel. So what makes an accurate rifle? One that groups well, and that's about all you can say about that.

 

[Kingfish]

Not to be obtuse here, but what is a good barrel? Is it the name on it that makes it "good"? Although a name barrel has a higher likelihood of being "good", it certainly isn't a given. Over the years I've had several bad "good" barrels, if "good" is a name. Is it perfect bedding? I know of several rifles that almost anyone would consider accurate that are just screwed down into a wood stock, no bedding at all. I know of one in a cheap Bell and Carlson plastic stock with only the recoil lug bedded. A good trigger? My good and yours would more than likely be very different, but as long as I do my part weight isn't necessarily good or bad. Now I will admit a good trigger helps, but it won't help a bad barrel. So what makes an accurate rifle? One that groups well, and that's about all you can say about that.

This is true. Anything made by man can have a lemon once and a while. The best you can do is buy one from a well respected mfg., Brake it in according to their recommendation, and see what you end up with. Well known and widely used makers can up your odds, but is no guarantee.

 

[ClintC]

We are not going to find sub MOA with a cheap plastic stock and a 8# trigger the easy. Can it be done “yes” but what are the odds. Plus the person behind the trigger has to do there job. Just wanted to put something out to help people on a budget. Where would you start if you had a $600 rifle and wanted to get 1/2 in or better.

 

[Kwaynem]

We are not going to find sub MOA with a cheap plastic stock and a 8# trigger the easy. Can it be done “yes” but what are the odds. Plus the person behind the trigger has to do there job. Just wanted to put something out to help people on a budget. Where would you start if you had a $600 rifle and wanted to get 1/2 in or better.

How far are we talking about?

 

[Ndenway]

when I used to shoot consistantly, I could hit paper plates at 800 approx 70% of the time (sometimes better, sometimes not) with my rem700, glass bedded, tuned up trigger & it's favorite load.
With my m70 22250 varmint rifle I could hit coke cans fairly regularly at 500, sometimes a bit farther if I drank enough coffee and smoked a pack of cigs.

Nowadays, I'm a mediocre shooter, if I squint I might be able to see something at 300 yards, hell pretty much last several years I've only shot my daily carry, shotgun & little hipoint carbine, so it's been under 100yrd shooting.

Practiced/skilled shooter can do excellent with great gear & even great with mediocre gear.

Read that Hathcock won camp perry with a 300wm rifle that had been accurized & iirc ammo loaded by their armourer.

And read jim land saying the winchester m70 30'06 that hathcock used came off a rack in the armoury that was used for deer hunting on some base but barrel bore was rough blablabla, that their armourer accurized the rifle the best as possible but it was only at best a 2moa rifle, but it was what they had & hathcock used it.

 

[ClintC]

How far are we talking about?

100 yards. In theory 1 inch at 100 and 2 inches at 200. You get the idea. If you can get 1/2 inch at 100 then 200 would be 1 inch and so on. I have a Ruger American in 270. Besides having the barrel heat up after 3 or 4 rounds. I had a crap ton of accuracy issues. Stock would flex when loaded. Changed it to a fiberglass stock and did change the trigger. Now I’m getting about 1 inch. I just gave up at that point because of the barrel heating up. Plus it a hunting rifle 1 to 200 yards. I want better but just don’t want to spend all day dealing with it at this point.

 

[KurtM]

Well I would get a few different types of ammo to try if I didn't reload. If it shows some promise with something ammo wise, I would look at the crown I might then bed the action and see if it got better. If I've got it out of the stock I might play with the trigger a bit. Then I'd try it again, if it was better yet, I might try to upgrade a few things like mounts and optics.... But you said on a budget so your having to do all this work yourself. Hopefully you are skilled enough to do so. If it didn't shoot fairly well at any step in this process, I'd sell it off and start over. I will never try fire lapping, and other such tricks if a barrel doesn't shoot fairly well right from the start I might crown it and try one more time, but if it still doesn't do close to what I think it should..... down the road it goes. A good barrel will shoot fairly well with a wide range of ammo and really well with good load development, but a bad barrel will NEVER get much better. Life is too short to screw around with things like this.

 

[CS Boomis]

Probably what ever put together that has the most consistent harmonics shot to shot. Repeatable consistency in all the elements and everything stays where it’s put. That should be accurate.

 

[JCann]

I’ve shot GA Precision built rifles in .338 Lapua, 6.5x284, (Badger Ordinance Actions) 7WSM (Winchester Action) and .308 (Remington Action). All with Bartlein barrels. A IBA Chandler built rifle in .308 (Remington Action) with a Hart barrel and an Accuracy International in .308 with a Bartlein barrel. Each of these rifles were and are highly accurate with our reloads and the right factory ammo, meaning sub 1/2 moa to moa at all distances used. All of these rifles except one belong to my buddy that I shoot long range with. We shoot 8 inch plates out to 1000 yards and 2/3 to full size IPSC beyond that. Every one of these rifles barrels I believe are heavy target to MTU contours, but I’m not sure about the Chandler and AI. Not one of these barrels have failed us although some have slowed down over time (6.5x284 & 7WSM)

 

[KurtM]

All I can say is that you have named one of the companies I have gotten a "bad" barrel from. They made it right eventually, but it was still a bad barrel. To the tune of 12-20 moa when heated up. Sent it in and they shot a 3 round group and sent it back saying they couldn't find anything wrong. Damn near took an act of congress for them to fire 10 rounds through it fairly fast and then group it. They at first refused to believe it was bad, but I had to send them the rifle and 40 rounds of FGMM and told them heat it up. Cold it would group about 1 moa after 10 rounds or so you couldn't hit a wash tub at 100 yards. So yes, a name barrel has a much higher chance of shooting well, but it certainly isn't a guaranty, and you will never know until it is screwed on and shooting.... So what makes an accurate rifle? Good groups!

 

[Beautiful Mulberry]

as mentioned above, a rifle that groups well is an accurate rifle. One doesn’t need to spend a fortune. If anything a decent stock. Just learn the factory trigger, I also believe that you should be able to put your rifle through the earths elements and still perform and perform under heat. I do not baby them i use them.

So I got a remington 700 308 tactical XCR, factory barrel thats been cut down to 18’’ with an APA fat bastard muzzle break, manners stock hears been bedded, x mark with my hand loads 170gr FMJ will group 5 shot just under 1/2inch at 100 yards. I’ve polished the feed ramp, lugs where lugs lock. Also changed out the firing pin spring for a slight heavier one. I like to take it out to foul bore. Consistently hit 1k.

This past month i picked up a remington 700 heavy varmint 26’’ factory 5 R barrel factory timney trigger APA little bastard break, timber creek chassis (i picked up from a member on here) still doing load development after break in with 60gr v max 5 shot group 100 yards is 0.283. 3500ish FPS. 70gr sp grouped @ 0.800. 3400ish FPS. Working my way up to 77gr sierras soon.
The timber creek chassis i pick up, chassis does not sit exactly flush. I’ll be fixing this issue soon then bed it as well. I’ve also polished the lugs and locking area along with the feed ramp.
Im going back and forth with if i want to cut the barrel down to 21’’. I’ve given myself 6 month of playing to make that determination.

Optics
Vortex venom 3-15x44
Vortex diamondback 6x24x50

 

[KurtM]

I'm guessing said 5R is a 22-250?

 

[Beautiful Mulberry]

I'm guessing said 5R is a 22-250?

No 223, after all that I forgot to add caliber

 

[JCann]

All I can say is that you have named one of the companies I have gotten a "bad" barrel from. They made it right eventually, but it was still a bad barrel. To the tune of 12-20 moa when heated up. Sent it in and they shot a 3 round group and sent it back saying they couldn't find anything wrong. Damn near took an act of congress for them to fire 10 rounds through it fairly fast and then group it. They at first refused to believe it was bad, but I had to send them the rifle and 40 rounds of FGMM and told them heat it up. Cold it would group about 1 moa after 10 rounds or so you couldn't hit a wash tub at 100 yards. So yes, a name barrel has a much higher chance of shooting well, but it certainly isn't a guaranty, and you will never know until it is screwed on and shooting.... So what makes an accurate rifle? Good groups!

Not to be obtuse as well, but what is good groups? Is there a codified standard for combining all shooting disciplines that I need to go by or is it beauty in the eye of the beholder? Basically, what do we classify as good groups and, should it apply to everyone? Or do we have a different set of “good groups” standards depending on the discipline that we employ the weapon? After all, I’m sure we could have taken your bad barreled rifle just beyond muzzle blast range, with an extremely hot barrel and shot a decent group, but it wouldn’t mean it’s accurate.

We all know you can’t go buy “good groups” (whatever that is), but you do increase the odds of accuracy with a quality barrel manufactured by a reputable company. Like I said earlier, “everything plays a part in accuracy”, and accuracy doesn’t necessarily mean “good groups.” If I have a gas gun that’s 1.5 moa at a 300 yards and is 10/10 at a 1000 yards on a FS IPSC is it accurate? Is that considered to have good groups? Maybe it’s both to some shooters. I would probably say that’s not a good group, but it is accurate for what I’m doing.

The old 1/10 of 1% low hanging fruit argument doesn’t set the standard and should never be used to make a point. I’m sure we could add Brux, Krieger, Shilen, and a host of others to a point of ad nauseam, but it doesn’t mean they are judged by the 0.01%

Anyway, after one exhausts everything they can have a barrel spun up and the action trued/thread’s recut, buy a prefit (if anyone makes it), or sell it and start over. Or, do like some and buy once, cry once.

 

[KurtM]

I think most would say .5 MOA for a rifle, 2 MOA for a handgun, and 3 MOA for a shotgun with slugs would be "good groups", for some no, but for most. Accurate, and good enough do intersect at direct results. IE. Let's say your favorite PRS match rifle is getting tired and you didn't have time to "drop in a new barrel" it has opened up to a solid 2 MOA. You go to the match, not expecting to win, and yet because of better field position shooting you end up waxing every ass at the match. your rifle was inaccurate, but your result was good enough.