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Garage Gunsmithing - The 15 minute AR trigger Job

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danc46

danc46

I'm a Cunt
FYI I’ve done this too but prefer a spring kit intentionally made for the AR. The JP kits are not as consistent in pull as the one listed at the bottom. Dont mess with the trigger/grip adjustment screw Joe Bob sells. You remove the grip then reinstall it you’ll have to readjust it, not worth having IMO.



Trigger spring kit that has worked well for me and friends:

www.joeboboutfitters.com

Kaw Valley Precision AR-15 Reduced Power Trigger Spring Kit

Kaw Valley Precision AR-15 Reduced Power Trigger Spring Kit
www.joeboboutfitters.com

Im very partial to Geisele triggers (5 of them, love the 2 stage pulls). Brandi has a Rock River match trigger on a Grendel we built and she really likes it.

ETA Mods, sorry if this is in the wrong area. Please move.
 
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Don't get butt hurt when folks jump in advising NOT to clip springs or bend springs to improve the trigger in their weapons. This is just bad info all around man.

Put a drop in spring kit or trigger kit in it and be done. I have a couple LaRue MBT's and a Geissele and I can't think of why cutting or bending shit would improve upon these two.
 
rockchalk06 said:
Don't get butt hurt when folks jump in advising NOT to clip springs or bend springs to improve the trigger in their weapons. This is just bad info all around man.

Put a drop in spring kit or trigger kit in it and be done. I have a couple LaRue MBT's and a Geissele and I can't think of why cutting or bending shit would improve upon these two.
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Agreed. Whether it’s for defense or for taking game, I expect absolute reliability. Playing games with the trigger isn’t the best idea when there’s already proven, high quality, drop in solutions all over the market.
 
HoLeChit said:
Agreed. Whether it’s for defense or for taking game, I expect absolute reliability. Playing games with the trigger isn’t the best idea when there’s already proven, high quality, drop in solutions all over the market.
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rockchalk06 said:
Don't get butt hurt when folks jump in advising NOT to clip springs or bend springs to improve the trigger in their weapons. This is just bad info all around man.

Put a drop in spring kit or trigger kit in it and be done. I have a couple LaRue MBT's and a Geissele and I can't think of why cutting or bending shit would improve upon these two.
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😎 Agreed, but consider that the springs are cheap. People learn by doing. I’ve got at least 7-8 trigger/hammer spring sets I replaced. I quit buying JB setsbecause they vary so much in the same SKU PACKAGE TO PACKAGE. THE Kaw Valleys have been consistent so far. As fast as triggers, I don’t think you can beat the Geiseles. I flat out loved the SSE since my first.
The Rock River is pretty nice too. Can’t speak to the drop ins of any kind but some bUDDIES swear by them.
As far as cutting springs it was done for years on the S&W revolver rebound springs.
The hammer spring on the J frames are round springs and some smiths drill the spring cup down a small bit and the spring has to compress a little less. It can drop the DA from 9.5 lbs to less than 8.
But like you said RELIABILITY FIRST.
 
HoLeChit said:
Agreed. Whether it’s for defense or for taking game, I expect absolute reliability. Playing games with the trigger isn’t the best idea when there’s already proven, high quality, drop in solutions all over the market.
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I agree. In my first sentence I recommended a spring kit, the Kaw Valley Precision.
IMO Everybody with an AR should buy an Oops! Kit, the one with all the springs in it. They usually have the hammer and trigger springs in it, plus every other one you might need.
But that picture I put up the other day where we replaced the springs with the Kaw spring kit, that boy had shot a crate of ammo out of tha rifle with that 15 minute truigger job done with no problems. He stepped up to another improvement on his rifle (the spring kit) at my suggestion.
 
danc46 said:
Neither is the 25 cent Glock trigger job but lots of people do them. There isn’t any telling how many tens of thousands have done this and left it that way.
Not trying to cause controversy but people look and decide.
Those Kaw Valley spring sets are what I recommended,
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You are comparing polishing a couple of parts with flitz and a Q-Tip to clipping and bending springs.
 
rockchalk06 said:
You are comparing polishing a couple of parts with flitz and a Q-Tip to clipping and bending springs.
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Ask a Glock rep what he thinks about it. He’ll tell you don’t do it, shoot it enough and you’ll get the same results without polishing it.
Some of those after market trigger kits are exactly the Cheap trigger job, Glock parts they polished and packaged marked $100+.
ETA Not condemning those companies, I’ve got the Zev spring kits in my Poly80s.
 
I’ve always assumed drop in kits were the best way to go. I have an entry level Rise in 2 of my lowers and a 2 stage factory RRA in my rock river. I’ve been really happy with the Rise armament triggers. Any thoughts on those?
 
Rise is good equipment. I've never run them, but know several guys who run them and they have never had any trouble with them. I also know the guys that make them and they stand behind their gear!
While we are here I'd like to clear a couple things up that we're kinda muddied farther up!
ISMI spring company makes springs for all kinds of companies, of which Kaw and J.P. are two. Saying that one package with one name on it is sooo much better than the other is like saying, forgive me here, left Twix is so superior to right Twix!
Next lighter spring packs are a good way to lighten trigger pull, still going to have creep and gritty feel, but it will be lighter.... HOWEVER!!! If you go this route you really should run a lightened hammer or you will get light strikes occasionally. You can buy one, or merely cut off the rear "alien from the movie" rear hook on your standard AR hammer. Kinda make it straight from the disconnect on up. Easy to cut it off with a Dremel and now the lighter spring can accelerate the hammer fast enough to get reliable ignition.

Didn't want to post that earlier to avoid the arguing.
 
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Crispy said:
I’ve always assumed drop in kits were the best way to go. I have an entry level Rise in 2 of my lowers and a 2 stage factory RRA in my rock river. I’ve been really happy with the Rise armament triggers. Any thoughts on those?
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Just saw this. It depends in what your wallet can handle. Before replacing a whole section of a gun because of a problem, do one part at a time I.e. FTEs replace extractor spring, then extractor, etc before replacing the bolt on an AR - AFTER INSPECTING PARTS, CHAMBER, ETC. A broken part should be obvious.
As far as Rise trigger groups, the most prevalent one at Camp Perry is the Giselle. I’ve built premium ARs for accuracy with White Oak barrels, Daniel Defense barrels, matching bolts, etc. expense wasn’t a problem so I bought the Giselles. I’ve met Giselle at NRA conventions, spent time talking with him, found him to be an exacting individual wanting perfection. So I spent the money to buy his products.
I can’t address Rise quality. I have an RRA match trigger in an AR10 I bought from a friend. It is a quality trigger in my opinion. How well it holds up I can’t say. That AR 10 only has about 1500 rounds thru it.
FWIW Strike industries sells a jig to set up your AR trigger parts in to “tune” your original trigger, then install them back in the rifle. Doing that is a whole different procedure and I won’t address that here. Some high dollar triggers have adjustment screws in trigger (on the bottom of the trigger to adjust trigger take up) that is shoot and adjust to the best SAFE setting.
Most people can’t afford (or don’t want to) spend extra money on a gun. Everybody wants the best trigger they can get in a rifle but can’t afford the drop ins. I put this thread up to help people out and to save money.
Somebody bitched about cutting springs. A spring kit is better and springs are cheap. Lots of factors enter into it. If your shooting mil spec ammo with harder primers, reloads with commercial primers, etc.
I don’t like JP spring kits and they are supposedly a “premium” company. I found too much varaiation in spring strength (their different spring kits are color coded) between their spring kits in the same gun. The 15 minute trigger job had a lighter trigger pull and never misfired whatever ammo used in the gun.
But using 5 or 6 of my ARs for Women on Target I put in spring kits from Kaw Valley instead of running the JP kits per the WOT director’s suggestion no modified triggers for liability reasons. I wanted good trigger pulls for the gals so they would have the best shooting experience possible. I sure wasn’t taking a higher end rifle out there for them to learn on.
 
J.P. light springs have a unique bend on the right hand trigger spring leg. This is to clear the over travel screw on the right hand front of the J.P. trigger. No other trigger needs this bend. Now here is the conundrum KAW does not make a trigger like J.P. that would violate the J.P. patent. So pray tell, Dan, why does the KAW trigger spring kit have this same exact bend that the J.P. spring kit has? Could it be that KAW, who does not make the springs they offer, and J.P. who also doesn't make the springs they offer, source them from the same exact company. That same exact company happens to be ISMI spring company, and that is not a guess. To say KAW is far superior to J.P. , when they are both made from the same spring stock on the same jigs by the same company, is misguided at best and wilfully ignorant at worst.
 
I guess the first and most obvious declaration would be that I’m a cheap ass. Wasn’t always so, but matrimony and family restructured my fiduciary allocations.

I have purchased a couple different Rise triggers second hand, single and two stage and they both feel like gifts from above compared to milspec. One rifle I picked up came with the Palmetto State two stage EPT trigger and it was not really consistent in that platform. I pulled it and put it in my piston Ruger and it works phenomenally in that one. I bought a second hand LaRue curved single stage that I put in a multi role lower and it’s excellent in all weathers. I probably don’t have the price of a Geislle in the whole lot. When I get enough slack I’m going to play around with polishing the sears on some milspecs laying around here for kicks and giggles… and to keep them from being FOD I can’t bring myself to pitch.

If I were to just drop the coin and buy brand new it’d be LaRue and Rise in no particular order because they work exceptionally well for me. This time of year keep your eye peeled for the LaRue mix and match five pack deal on their triggers. I like Rise because they’re local and their customer service even for a second hand user is top shelf.
 
For all the spring connoisseurs in the house. You ought to run by Ebsco Spring over there in Tulsa and see if they’ll give you a tour of the process. They used to make all the springs for my old man’s company. It’s kind of like sausage, once you see how it’s done all the marketing hype goes out the window. Used to be my favorite stop when I was a teenager for reasons irrelevant to the conversation. 😂
 
You sir are correct! Matter of fact there is a spring company in OKC that supplies about 70 of springs used in the US firearm market.
 
@KurtM

Would you agree that the accuracy with which the pin holes are drilled on the lower receiver has a greater impact on trigger performance than anything except burrs on the sear surfaces? At least as far as manipulable by the user goes. If pin holes are off in the trigger or hammer there’s not much the layperson can do about that except R&R.
 
I'll stick with the tried & true quick polish hammer/trigger engagement surfaces and a set of jp yellow springs in my trail rifles, they're crisp/smooth pull & consistant strike with all factory & reloads.

I did put a timney 3lb in my varmint rifle, it's been perfect with regular primers.

A little of the hard milspec primers like south african nato ammo & cci41's it had the first strike bounce, second strike fire issue, but it's like 1in300 so the coke can or varmint were lucky first goround.
 
Is it just me? When ol Danc46 first showed up he didn't seem to even know about J.P. rifles or products. Here is a direct quote from Danc "So you are playing with a rifle built by JP whoever?"
Now he is an expert on their spring kits and spring rates. Very perplexing this ol Dan.
 
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