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AR-10 gar rings

Beautiful Mulberry

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I picked up an AR10 for a good price.
Discovered the gas rings are worn out.
Primary arms has a 1 piece gas ring.
Any advantage to this?
 
I wouldn't say an advantage, but for the price they work well, but you have to make sure you have a DPMS style bolt, not the ones patterned off of Armalite. Dollar per dollar I think the JP ring is a bit better than 3 regular gas rings, but both work as well as the other.
 
Thanks,
Mine is the ar style.
I purchased the sprinco 3 rings and extractor spring
 
One piece are easy, but it's doesn't matter much As long as whatever you get is high quality. Cheap parts that are essential for function will reflect.

What did you get for a gun?
 
aero m5-308
Has a patriot defense drop in trigger 3.5lbs.
Had some weird 3 prong flash hider I took it off and for the time being I put in my APA fat bastards till I can come across something for it. It came with 2 pmags one 25 one 30 round. I don’t like pmags so I ordered metal ones that’s better for longer bullets from hand loads.
I’m just going to rebuild everything in the bolt.
 
Ok, I'll pontificate on a subject regarding your (308 gas gun) rifle. Mainly two points. The recoil system and I'll briefly touch on the gas system. I would also listen to what @KurtM has to say; we also have a mutual friend down in TX that is a repository of really good Gas Gun info. If it can be answered, he's the one to answer it. Or Kurt

For right now, you have a DPMS pattern rifle (AR308) and not an Armalite pattern rifle (AR10). There is a difference and some folks say tomato-tomotto, but it can really matter sometimes especially with fitment shit.

Anyway,
Recoil System:
What are you sporting on there? A standard carbine Extension (buffer tube) and a shorty buffer with a short (probably cut down) spring?
Or an A5/AR10 carbine extension with a standard Carbine buffer and spring?

My personal preference is the latter. I don't ever use shorty buffers and springs. I know some folks use them and really like them and I don't mean to take away from them. But, here's why I don't ever use them. The only shorty buffer/spring combo that I've ever seen work is DPMS. DPMS is basically the ones who started using shorty buffers and springs prolifically. To my knowledge, they are the only ones that had a purpose made short recoil spring. Everyone else just cuts a carbine spring and calls it good. I have purchased short springs only to find that they've been cut. If someone else knows of a shorty spring maker that actually works, please post away. I don't trust any company out there to be competent enough to make one. But that's just me. Plenty of time with them and pretty much all bad.

Usually, when people cut these springs, in order for them to function, they will also stack up - which means the spring coils are smashed together in the tube and stop moving. Then you have BCG bounce and short stroking, bolt override, etc. Not long enough, they can short stroke, slow return, fail to feed, extreme BCG bounce and excessive recoil. Then the fix is to stretch the spring and voila! you fucked up it's spring tension and it still does all the above but worse. I'd say ask @rockchalk06 about spring stack.

Another neat trick people do is use an A5 Extension with a shorty buffer...not a good thing.

I don't have any shorty buffers or springs. If I can't sell them, then I chunk 'em in the trash because they're useless as a retired wheelchair repairman on O2.


Here's the secret to a good big bore gas gun recoil system:

A5/AR10 Extension
H2 Carbine Buffer
Tubbs spring or a heavy carbine spring (usually painted red)


I think JP has a system that works well too but I haven't ever used it so I cannot say anything good or bad. @KurtM knows about these


Gas System:
Here's one of the subjects that makes everyone mad AF so I don't say much anymore on it. IMO, if it was mine, with an 18"-20" barrel, I'd port it to .093 +/- .001. .095 is fine too. Otherwise hunt down a table for 16" mid or carbine gas.


I will say that if you have an adjustable gas block, remember that it's only going to work up the gas port in the barrel. That's why most people waste the $$$ on these adjustable gas blocks that don't do shit three turns from closed no matter how much they open them up. If I run an adjustable gas block, I will open the gas port to a minimum as large as the largest opening on the gas block I think I'll need. Otherwise you are wasting money with an adjustable gas block.


Now, if you think you have to learn the hard way and find out for yourself and make sure you spend a lot of time and money, then completely disregard anything I said.
 
Tubbs, A5 tube and H2 buffer is the only way to go with .308 bases gas guns. That was the ticket for my M5. Solved every feeding issue I had. Made the gun pleasnt to shoot.
 
JP's system works very well. I believe ISMI makes the springs for them. The Armalite pattern bolts are cut a few degree different in locking lug placement. They are not compatible with a SR-25/DPMS type extension and vice versa. Yes, an Armalite bolt will "fit" the DPMS extension, but it drags badly on locking and unlocking and will chip or shear the locking lugs eventually, and give maddening malfunctions randomly....no bueno!
As for port size, I find most all AR-10s are way over gassed. The pressure peak of 308 is way broader than the 223. This is even worse when suppressed. If you think about H and heavier buffers all you are doing is trying to keep the bolt carrier in battery longer which helps deal with the long peak, same with the heavier spring. I don't think I would go much over .089 for port size and I do like adjustable gas blocks for most commercial barrels because they seem to come ported for a bowling ball. You can tackle the problem from either end, or a combo of both. I personally like to cut down on gas because of less component velocity, but the same can be said for heavy back end components, but if you go heavy in back you can be defeating a bit of accuracy potential because you are really treating you ammo rough on chambering.
 
Ok, I'll pontificate on a subject regarding your (308 gas gun) rifle. Mainly two points. The recoil system and I'll briefly touch on the gas system. I would also listen to what @KurtM has to say; we also have a mutual friend down in TX that is a repository of really good Gas Gun info. If it can be answered, he's the one to answer it. Or Kurt

For right now, you have a DPMS pattern rifle (AR308) and not an Armalite pattern rifle (AR10). There is a difference and some folks say tomato-tomotto, but it can really matter sometimes especially with fitment shit.

Anyway,
Recoil System:
What are you sporting on there? A standard carbine Extension (buffer tube) and a shorty buffer with a short (probably cut down) spring?
Or an A5/AR10 carbine extension with a standard Carbine buffer and spring?

My personal preference is the latter. I don't ever use shorty buffers and springs. I know some folks use them and really like them and I don't mean to take away from them. But, here's why I don't ever use them. The only shorty buffer/spring combo that I've ever seen work is DPMS. DPMS is basically the ones who started using shorty buffers and springs prolifically. To my knowledge, they are the only ones that had a purpose made short recoil spring. Everyone else just cuts a carbine spring and calls it good. I have purchased short springs only to find that they've been cut. If someone else knows of a shorty spring maker that actually works, please post away. I don't trust any company out there to be competent enough to make one. But that's just me. Plenty of time with them and pretty much all bad.

Usually, when people cut these springs, in order for them to function, they will also stack up - which means the spring coils are smashed together in the tube and stop moving. Then you have BCG bounce and short stroking, bolt override, etc. Not long enough, they can short stroke, slow return, fail to feed, extreme BCG bounce and excessive recoil. Then the fix is to stretch the spring and voila! you fucked up it's spring tension and it still does all the above but worse. I'd say ask @rockchalk06 about spring stack.

Another neat trick people do is use an A5 Extension with a shorty buffer...not a good thing.

I don't have any shorty buffers or springs. If I can't sell them, then I chunk 'em in the trash because they're useless as a retired wheelchair repairman on O2.


Here's the secret to a good big bore gas gun recoil system:

A5/AR10 Extension
H2 Carbine Buffer
Tubbs spring or a heavy carbine spring (usually painted red)


I think JP has a system that works well too but I haven't ever used it so I cannot say anything good or bad. @KurtM knows about these


Gas System:
Here's one of the subjects that makes everyone mad AF so I don't say much anymore on it. IMO, if it was mine, with an 18"-20" barrel, I'd port it to .093 +/- .001. .095 is fine too. Otherwise hunt down a table for 16" mid or carbine gas.


I will say that if you have an adjustable gas block, remember that it's only going to work up the gas port in the barrel. That's why most people waste the $$$ on these adjustable gas blocks that don't do shit three turns from closed no matter how much they open them up. If I run an adjustable gas block, I will open the gas port to a minimum as large as the largest opening on the gas block I think I'll need. Otherwise you are wasting money with an adjustable gas block.


Now, if you think you have to learn the hard way and find out for yourself and make sure you spend a lot of time and money, then completely disregard anything I said.
Very good read.
I’m not I. The bizness of learning the hard way if I can get clear directions which you’ve layed out. Thank you.
AR308, got it!
I’m not sure what extension tube, buffer spring I have. My buffer is a shorty. No markings. Seems like it’s the same used in AR15. I assume the spring is a cut down version of what you’re talking about. Could I measure the spring and tube to find out what I have? When you say open up the port, your meaning the port on the barrel correct?

I’ll attach pics.

IMG_6500.jpeg
 
Tubbs, A5 tube and H2 buffer is the only way to go with .308 bases gas guns. That was the ticket for my M5. Solved every feeding issue I had. Made the gun pleasnt to shoot.
I replayed and attached a pic to JV’post. Do I have the A5 tube?
 
JP's system works very well. I believe ISMI makes the springs for them. The Armalite pattern bolts are cut a few degree different in locking lug placement. They are not compatible with a SR-25/DPMS type extension and vice versa. Yes, an Armalite bolt will "fit" the DPMS extension, but it drags badly on locking and unlocking and will chip or shear the locking lugs eventually, and give maddening malfunctions randomly....no bueno!
As for port size, I find most all AR-10s are way over gassed. The pressure peak of 308 is way broader than the 223. This is even worse when suppressed. If you think about H and heavier buffers all you are doing is trying to keep the bolt carrier in battery longer which helps deal with the long peak, same with the heavier spring. I don't think I would go much over .089 for port size and I do like adjustable gas blocks for most commercial barrels because they seem to come ported for a bowling ball. You can tackle the problem from either end, or a combo of both. I personally like to cut down on gas because of less component velocity, but the same can be said for heavy back end components, but if you go heavy in back you can be defeating a bit of accuracy potential because you are really treating you ammo rough on chambering.
Iv put 40 rounds through this one so far with out feeding issues. Ejection is about 2/3 o’clock. J and R post along with yours is a lot of info. Thank y’all.
 
With the above info slam,
What would be a good direction to go?
Red spring/carbine buffer, H2 buffer,
Add adjustable gas block to either above,
Or will any of the 2 above work just pics one?
Plus I need to know what B tube I have?
 
If memory serves me correct, the A5 tube is just shy of 8". That looks like a carbine length 7.25" tube. You have to use a stubby buffer with the carbine. That's where the issue lies.

A5 Tube
H2 carbine buffer
Tubbs flat wire spring

You might be able to get it all at LaRue then throw in a trigger
 
If memory serves me correct, the A5 tube is just shy of 8". That looks like a carbine length 7.25" tube. You have to use a stubby buffer with the carbine. That's where the issue lies.

A5 Tube
H2 carbine buffer
Tubbs flat wire spring

You might be able to get it all at LaRue then throw in a trigger
Thank you.
It came with a patriot defense 3.5 flat trigger. First flat trigger, going to try and get use to it. So far I’m not a fan. Although Iv only got 40 rds through it.
I’ll definitely get these ordered in the coming weeks
 
The direction I would go is shoot it more, if problems arise then think about changing things. I've got one DPMS 16" that I threw a suppressor on and it has been very, very reliable and it is completely stock from the factory. I did drop in a JP trigger, but gas/bolt/buffer/spring, just the way it came. Yours could very well be one like that. If it's working and keeps working be happy!
 
Well not quite, by shooting it more you will have a better idea of what you want to change/fix.😁
 
I wrote what I do. I don’t like the shorty buffers and springs. That spring looks like it was purpose made so it might not be giving you any issues. I wouldn’t mess with the gas port either unless you have issues. If it shoots without problems, then I wouldn’t worry about it.
 
I just read everything...lol. Anyway, it sounds like it's doing what you want it to do and I wouldn't do anything if it's not giving you a hassle. It all starts when you try to make it better.

If you want to change out your recoil system, weigh your buffer, I bet it's 3.4-3.8 oz which is H buffer weight. Most 308 shorties are about the same weight as an H buffer.
I use an A5 tube and a standard carbine buffer and spring because parts are common and I have a little better recoil than a shorty. I use an H2 buffer and heavier-ish spring because it's an easy button, not because it's the best but it works for me. IMO, the easiest/best recoil solution would be a rifle extension, buffer and spring. They're designed for that and will probably be a lot softer shooting.

@KurtM is right on the gas, most are probably overgassed so I wouldn't mess with that. The numbers I threw up (~.093) apply to rifle gas for an 18"-20", .750" journal, and probably throw on an adjustable GB. I violate this all the time which is why I use an H2 buffer and heavy spring to make up for blowing off stuff already known.

Anyway, if it's working, I'd leave it as is. You can always betterize it later. The one thing I'd change on that whole setup is that teeter-totter scope mount. If you've ever seen them on a slo-mo camera you'll swap it; the shock/vibe frequencies transferred to that scope is like a tuning fork. You can sell it to someone on OSA or donate it to Rickn or something. There are affordable mounts that are way better.
 
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